Discussion:
Database management tool
(too old to reply)
Henning
2010-05-29 13:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi

Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.

I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.

Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.

Best regards
Henning
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Jozef Sevcik
2010-05-30 14:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your point.
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making Mongo
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for MongoDB
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to survey
http://blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.

Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily portable/cross-platform
too.

For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks interesting,
however it's something I'm not in ;(

Just my $0.02,

Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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Henning
2010-05-30 17:08:37 UTC
Permalink
I've seen that survey before, and those numbers are something that do
worry me a bit.
I was considering making a webapp using ASP.NET, since you only get
away with installing it on one machine instead of several. However,
some of the features I want to implement doesn't correspond with with
a webapp, or it would be hard to do.

Since C# is my language of use, and I don't know any other except Java
from the university, I find it easier and quicker to do in C# rather
than learning a new language, frameworks and whatever else is needed.

I believe some of the reasons that there are so few windows users is
because we are so used to rich client tools with a nice UI. If we do
make a desktop app, I believe many more will come. Tooling is probably
the biggest cause for not going for MongoDB.
.NET developers are not getting much love from 10gen, and it seems
that it is up to the community to develop the drivers and tools.
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Hi,
coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your point.
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making Mongo
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for MongoDB
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to surveyhttp://blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.
Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily portable/cross-platform
too.
For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks interesting,
however it's something I'm not in ;(
Just my $0.02,
Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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GVP
2010-05-30 20:12:42 UTC
Permalink
OK, guys, don't get down on the numbers.

Here's the deal, I have major production products in both C# and PHP
and there are two completely different worlds.

MSSQL Management Studio is like the gold standard of DB management
products. If you've ever played with MySQL's version it's absolutely
hideous. The reason it sucks is b/c most MySQL devs just expect other
developers to use the command-line (like they do).

The problem here is that the command-line is great for automation, but
very poor for "discoverability". If you're a C# developer, you've been
blessed with tools like VS where MS spends tons of time trying to let
you "fall into the pit of success". Much of the open source world has
none of this.

Personally, *I agree* that we need a much better "management" tool.
I've been thinking about lots of ways to do this and I agree that a
"web service" is not really what you need. You want something like
MSSQL Management Studio and I think it's a wonderful idea.

So, you want to build it in C#? I say *go ahead*, just make sure that
it compiles under Mono.

If you look at the survey numbers, most of the people currently using
Mongo are really "open-sourcers", they're Linux devs who are
comfortable with the command-line and with wasting lots of time
learning each command. If you want to build a "Mongo Management
Studio", you will probably not be building for these people. You will
be building it for the next generation of users, people who want to
ease into learning it.

These users may be on Windows or Linux, but they'll be way more
comfortable with a nice UI. C# + Mono will enable you to make a nice
UI with a nice toolset. Honestly what's really important is that
someone expose all of the functionality in a manner that's accessible.
Just b/c the people *currently* using Mongo are not big C# fans
doesn't mean that they can't use the tools you build.

Just build good tool. And then post a link here so that I can help you
and contribute :)
Post by Henning
I've seen that survey before, and those numbers are something that do
worry me a bit.
I was considering making a webapp using ASP.NET, since you only get
away with installing it on one machine instead of several. However,
some of the features I want to implement doesn't correspond with with
a webapp, or it would be hard to do.
Since C# is my language of use, and I don't know any other except Java
from the university, I find it easier and quicker to do in C# rather
than learning a new language, frameworks and whatever else is needed.
I believe some of the reasons that there are so few windows users is
because we are so used to rich client tools with a nice UI. If we do
make a desktop app, I believe many more will come. Tooling is probably
the biggest cause for not going for MongoDB.
.NET developers are not getting much love from 10gen, and it seems
that it is up to the community to develop the drivers and tools.
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Hi,
coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your point.
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making Mongo
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for MongoDB
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to surveyhttp://blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.
Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily portable/cross-platform
too.
For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks interesting,
however it's something I'm not in ;(
Just my $0.02,
Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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Voltron
2010-05-30 23:03:01 UTC
Permalink
Something that would run on Mono would be a nice addition, that way,
it would be cross-platform. Further, the dev language would not be
much of a problem I think, Mono supports several languages:

http://www.mono-project.com/Languages
Post by GVP
OK, guys, don't get down on the numbers.
Here's the deal, I have major production products in both C# and PHP
and there are two completely different worlds.
MSSQL Management Studio is like the gold standard of DB management
products. If you've ever played with MySQL's version it's absolutely
hideous. The reason it sucks is b/c most MySQL devs just expect other
developers to use the command-line (like they do).
The problem here is that the command-line is great for automation, but
very poor for "discoverability". If you're a C# developer, you've been
blessed with tools like VS where MS spends tons of time trying to let
you "fall into the pit of success". Much of the open source world has
none of this.
Personally, *I agree* that we need a much better "management" tool.
I've been thinking about lots of ways to do this and I agree that a
"web service" is not really what you need. You want something like
MSSQL Management Studio and I think it's a wonderful idea.
So, you want to build it in C#? I say *go ahead*, just make sure that
it compiles under Mono.
If you look at the survey numbers, most of the people currently using
Mongo are really "open-sourcers", they're Linux devs who are
comfortable with the command-line and with wasting lots of time
learning each command. If you want to build a "Mongo Management
Studio", you will probably not be building for these people. You will
be building it for the next generation of users, people who want to
ease into learning it.
These users may be on Windows or Linux, but they'll be way more
comfortable with a nice UI. C# + Mono will enable you to make a nice
UI with a nice toolset. Honestly what's really important is that
someone expose all of the functionality in a manner that's accessible.
Just b/c the people *currently* using Mongo are not big C# fans
doesn't mean that they can't use the tools you build.
Just build good tool. And then post a link here so that I can help you
and contribute :)
Post by Henning
I've seen that survey before, and those numbers are something that do
worry me a bit.
I was considering making a webapp using ASP.NET, since you only get
away with installing it on one machine instead of several. However,
some of the features I want to implement doesn't correspond with with
a webapp, or it would be hard to do.
Since C# is my language of use, and I don't know any other except Java
from the university, I find it easier and quicker to do in C# rather
than learning a new language, frameworks and whatever else is needed.
I believe some of the reasons that there are so few windows users is
because we are so used to rich client tools with a nice UI. If we do
make a desktop app, I believe many more will come. Tooling is probably
the biggest cause for not going for MongoDB.
.NET developers are not getting much love from 10gen, and it seems
that it is up to the community to develop the drivers and tools.
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Hi,
coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your point.
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making Mongo
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for MongoDB
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to surveyhttp://blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.
Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily portable/cross-platform
too.
For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks interesting,
however it's something I'm not in ;(
Just my $0.02,
Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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Henning
2010-05-31 08:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the input guys.

I have been thinking a lot about the Mono support, and there is a few
things that do worry me.

1. Mono currently does not support C# 4.0, although it will be
released soon.
2. I really want to use WPF and Mono doesn't not support WPF. In fact,
the haven't planned for WPF at all. That means winforms, yuck!!!,
which would make things harder for me. I have some nice ideas that
would be easier to develop with WPF.
3. I will use the NoRM C# driver, which would also need to be Mono
compliant.
4. Every tool/lib I use has to be Mono compliant. Not sure how big off
an issue this will be, but it might cause some problems down the line.

My feeling is that multi platform is not something that was considered
by MS, and is only an afterthought.

Right now, I'm really torn between supporting other platforms, and
ease of development/cool features. I might be leaning towards WPF,
which would exclude Mono, although nothing is decided yet.

Another option would be to use Silverlight/Moonlight, but that is a
road I do not want to go down.

Henning
Post by Voltron
Something that would run on Mono would be a nice addition, that way,
it would be cross-platform. Further, the dev language would not be
http://www.mono-project.com/Languages
Post by GVP
OK, guys, don't get down on the numbers.
Here's the deal, I have major production products in both C# and PHP
and there are two completely different worlds.
MSSQL Management Studio is like the gold standard of DB management
products. If you've ever played with MySQL's version it's absolutely
hideous. The reason it sucks is b/c most MySQL devs just expect other
developers to use the command-line (like they do).
The problem here is that the command-line is great for automation, but
very poor for "discoverability". If you're a C# developer, you've been
blessed with tools like VS where MS spends tons of time trying to let
you "fall into the pit of success". Much of the open source world has
none of this.
Personally, *I agree* that we need a much better "management" tool.
I've been thinking about lots of ways to do this and I agree that a
"web service" is not really what you need. You want something like
MSSQL Management Studio and I think it's a wonderful idea.
So, you want to build it in C#? I say *go ahead*, just make sure that
it compiles under Mono.
If you look at the survey numbers, most of the people currently using
Mongo are really "open-sourcers", they're Linux devs who are
comfortable with the command-line and with wasting lots of time
learning each command. If you want to build a "Mongo Management
Studio", you will probably not be building for these people. You will
be building it for the next generation of users, people who want to
ease into learning it.
These users may be on Windows or Linux, but they'll be way more
comfortable with a nice UI. C# + Mono will enable you to make a nice
UI with a nice toolset. Honestly what's really important is that
someone expose all of the functionality in a manner that's accessible.
Just b/c the people *currently* using Mongo are not big C# fans
doesn't mean that they can't use the tools you build.
Just build good tool. And then post a link here so that I can help you
and contribute :)
Post by Henning
I've seen that survey before, and those numbers are something that do
worry me a bit.
I was considering making a webapp using ASP.NET, since you only get
away with installing it on one machine instead of several. However,
some of the features I want to implement doesn't correspond with with
a webapp, or it would be hard to do.
Since C# is my language of use, and I don't know any other except Java
from the university, I find it easier and quicker to do in C# rather
than learning a new language, frameworks and whatever else is needed.
I believe some of the reasons that there are so few windows users is
because we are so used to rich client tools with a nice UI. If we do
make a desktop app, I believe many more will come. Tooling is probably
the biggest cause for not going for MongoDB.
.NET developers are not getting much love from 10gen, and it seems
that it is up to the community to develop the drivers and tools.
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Hi,
coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your point.
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making Mongo
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for MongoDB
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to surveyhttp://blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.
Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily portable/cross-platform
too.
For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks interesting,
however it's something I'm not in ;(
Just my $0.02,
Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is to
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far doesn't
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as creating
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc. Mongo3
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what I've
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would you
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to be a
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#. I've
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET ranks
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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Jozef Sevcik
2010-05-31 09:17:46 UTC
Permalink
It can be done crossplatform even in .net, but it's pain and WPF is out of
question.
I've spent serious amount of time with WinForms and without third-party
commercial UI toolkits
(which usually don't care about Mono) it's major PITA.

I would be very happy to contribute/test tool on Mono as it's easy for me to
test on osx/linux beside windows,
but from my experience tech decision it's pretty simple with .NET on
desktop:
- Windows only = WPF/no limits
- Crossplatform = winforms 2.0 stack only, 'runs everywhere', but
development is really not fun imho

Jozef
Post by Henning
Thanks for the input guys.
I have been thinking a lot about the Mono support, and there is a few
things that do worry me.
1. Mono currently does not support C# 4.0, although it will be
released soon.
2. I really want to use WPF and Mono doesn't not support WPF. In fact,
the haven't planned for WPF at all. That means winforms, yuck!!!,
which would make things harder for me. I have some nice ideas that
would be easier to develop with WPF.
3. I will use the NoRM C# driver, which would also need to be Mono
compliant.
4. Every tool/lib I use has to be Mono compliant. Not sure how big off
an issue this will be, but it might cause some problems down the line.
My feeling is that multi platform is not something that was considered
by MS, and is only an afterthought.
Right now, I'm really torn between supporting other platforms, and
ease of development/cool features. I might be leaning towards WPF,
which would exclude Mono, although nothing is decided yet.
Another option would be to use Silverlight/Moonlight, but that is a
road I do not want to go down.
Henning
Post by Voltron
Something that would run on Mono would be a nice addition, that way,
it would be cross-platform. Further, the dev language would not be
http://www.mono-project.com/Languages
Post by GVP
OK, guys, don't get down on the numbers.
Here's the deal, I have major production products in both C# and PHP
and there are two completely different worlds.
MSSQL Management Studio is like the gold standard of DB management
products. If you've ever played with MySQL's version it's absolutely
hideous. The reason it sucks is b/c most MySQL devs just expect other
developers to use the command-line (like they do).
The problem here is that the command-line is great for automation, but
very poor for "discoverability". If you're a C# developer, you've been
blessed with tools like VS where MS spends tons of time trying to let
you "fall into the pit of success". Much of the open source world has
none of this.
Personally, *I agree* that we need a much better "management" tool.
I've been thinking about lots of ways to do this and I agree that a
"web service" is not really what you need. You want something like
MSSQL Management Studio and I think it's a wonderful idea.
So, you want to build it in C#? I say *go ahead*, just make sure that
it compiles under Mono.
If you look at the survey numbers, most of the people currently using
Mongo are really "open-sourcers", they're Linux devs who are
comfortable with the command-line and with wasting lots of time
learning each command. If you want to build a "Mongo Management
Studio", you will probably not be building for these people. You will
be building it for the next generation of users, people who want to
ease into learning it.
These users may be on Windows or Linux, but they'll be way more
comfortable with a nice UI. C# + Mono will enable you to make a nice
UI with a nice toolset. Honestly what's really important is that
someone expose all of the functionality in a manner that's accessible.
Just b/c the people *currently* using Mongo are not big C# fans
doesn't mean that they can't use the tools you build.
Just build good tool. And then post a link here so that I can help you
and contribute :)
Post by Henning
I've seen that survey before, and those numbers are something that do
worry me a bit.
I was considering making a webapp using ASP.NET, since you only get
away with installing it on one machine instead of several. However,
some of the features I want to implement doesn't correspond with with
a webapp, or it would be hard to do.
Since C# is my language of use, and I don't know any other except
Java
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
from the university, I find it easier and quicker to do in C# rather
than learning a new language, frameworks and whatever else is needed.
I believe some of the reasons that there are so few windows users is
because we are so used to rich client tools with a nice UI. If we do
make a desktop app, I believe many more will come. Tooling is
probably
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
the biggest cause for not going for MongoDB.
.NET developers are not getting much love from 10gen, and it seems
that it is up to the community to develop the drivers and tools.
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Hi,
coming from MSSQL/.NET background, I definitely agree and see your
point.
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Solid, desktop management tool for Mongo such as MSSQL Mgmt Studio,
preferably with plugin support would be definitely something making
Mongo
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
easier to "sell".
I was seriously considering making solid desktop product for
MongoDB
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
management,
however I realized that .NET is not right tool for this job.
According to surveyhttp://
blog.mongodb.org/post/396693738/mongodb-survey-results
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
(ok, 120 people is not that much, but enough for the picture)
Windows is not the major platform people develop&deploy on.
Considering the fact that MongoDB itself has good support for
Windows/Linux/OSX
I think it makes sense to have admin tool easily
portable/cross-platform
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
too.
For example, QT as library for desktop&portable apps looks
interesting,
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
however it's something I'm not in ;(
Just my $0.02,
Jozef
Post by Henning
Hi
Myself and a couple of other guys from the NoRM C# driver are
considering making a db management tool, such as MS SQL server
Management Studio. I do have a few ideas, but the general idea is
to
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
be able to manage your db and/or db cluster from a good and nice
looking UI.
I'm sorry to say this, but from the few tools I've seen so far
doesn't
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
quite impress me. They usually just give you some kind of server
status, but I'm not able to do anything from the app, such as
creating
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
queries, drop collections, add documents, shutdown server, etc.
Mongo3
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
does create a nice overview of your cluster, atleast from what
I've
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
seen (not tried), and that is something I want to include.
Anyways, is this something you guys also feel are missing? Would
you
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
use a tool like this if we make it, and if so do you want it to
be a
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
desktop app or webapp. Both choices would be made in .NET and C#.
I've
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
seen some numbers of the languages used with Mongo, and .NET
ranks
Post by Voltron
Post by GVP
Post by Henning
Post by Jozef Sevcik
Post by Henning
quite low on the scale. Woul that pose any problems for you guys?
Not sure how well Mono would support every feature I want, so you
might need to use a windows box.
Best regards
Henning
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Maciej Dziardziel
2010-05-31 11:47:38 UTC
Permalink
See my tool: http://blueone.pl:8001/fangofmongo/

It is web based (with python backend although i am looking at node.js)
and already supports plugins.

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Henning
2010-05-31 12:30:56 UTC
Permalink
What about an MVC style approach, where you could (hopefully easily)
create new UI's ontop of the core?. This is something that Mono itself
recommends if the app is going to be used in multiple platforms.
That way I can use WPF for windows, and somebody else could make a
winforms/GTK# UI for Linux and Mac.

Maciej,

It looks very nice. I did consider a webapp, but then you need a
webserver, etc.

Henning
See my tool:http://blueone.pl:8001/fangofmongo/
It is web based (with python backend although i am looking at node.js)
and already supports plugins.
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Maciej Dziardziel
2010-05-31 14:54:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henning
What about an MVC style approach, where you could (hopefully easily)
create new UI's ontop of the core?. This is something that Mono itself
recommends if the app is going to be used in multiple platforms.
That way I can use WPF for windows, and somebody else could make a
winforms/GTK# UI for Linux and Mac.
Maciej,
It looks very nice. I did consider a webapp, but then you need a
webserver, etc.
Webserver was natural choice, for many reasons:

- easy way to do nice looking gui
- access mongo wherever you are without installing anything
- it is easier to get help from other people
- today browsers gain new features on daily basis, no other framework
can compete with them

also, Fang of mongo by default uses built-in django server, so you
don't need anything special to run it.
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Henning
2010-05-31 15:32:48 UTC
Permalink
I see potentially two usecases for such a system.

1. Used by operations team to monitor the database/cluster to see that
everything works as it should. That includes performance stats, etc.
Here a webserver would be ideal, as nobody has to install any programs
and it would be accessible from just about everywhere.
2. Used by developers to aid in the development of their systems. That
way they can easily check to see that every piece of data is stored,
as well as performance metrics. Here a desktop app would be ideal as
the users wouldn't have to set up a webserver just to check if
everything works as it should.

The webserver approach would also be easier to port, since you don't
have to deal with multiple UI frameworks.
However, for some of my features, a desktop app would be a better
choice.
Post by Maciej Dziardziel
Post by Henning
What about an MVC style approach, where you could (hopefully easily)
create new UI's ontop of the core?. This is something that Mono itself
recommends if the app is going to be used in multiple platforms.
That way I can use WPF for windows, and somebody else could make a
winforms/GTK# UI for Linux and Mac.
Maciej,
It looks very nice. I did consider a webapp, but then you need a
webserver, etc.
- easy way to do nice looking gui
- access mongo wherever you are without installing anything
- it is easier to get help from other people
- today browsers gain new features on daily basis, no other framework
can compete with them
also, Fang of mongo by default uses built-in django server, so you
don't need anything special to run it.
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Nick Ryberg
2010-06-01 14:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Speaking as a heavy user of MSSQL admin, I love that interface, but I
realized that there's a huge swath of stuff that I have to do with
SQLServer (or any other relational DB) that I don't have to do with
MongoDB.

It'd be really cool to have a more modern and informative interface to
MongoDB than the default stats server, but really, I don't use the
console to build new tables - they're built automatically! New
queries? Not really all that hard anymore. Renaming "columns" - umm
that's a lot harder, but again, often not that necessary.

I want to disturb everyone in the coffee shop with my Tarzan yell
proclaiming my joy at not having to take care of the DB administrative
junk that I used to worry about. Yeee haw! Who needs an interface
when you don't need to twiddle the dials in the first place?
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Лоик
2010-06-01 16:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Here are some ideas of what could be nice to implement:

1. Managing system.js
2. Managing users per collection
3. Running task like migration etc
- We don't need to edit schema like in rdbms but if we change something
in our code, it could be fun to have somewhere that let us run
task in order
to conform old data to the changes
4. Import/Export of data
5. Viewing data
6. Query builder?
7. Viewing logs
8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node

Honestly, i'd make it a webapp because it's far easier to setup for many
people and can be accessed from anywhere with a web browser. So no need to
setup anything except a browser.
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Henning
2010-06-02 12:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Nick,

A lot of the regular usecases for SQL server management studio goes
away when you use a database like MongoDB, however I do believe there
is still room for such an app.
Лоик mentions a lot of the things I've been thinking about, and
especially "8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node" is
something I'd consider to be valuable.

Lets take the case mentioned. You're an ops guy, and want to know the
health of your cluster. Straight out of the box, you'd probably do a
lot of command line stuff to get an "overview", but you'd lose
yourself if your cluster gets big. Not to mention it would be a MANUAL
operation each time. You could probably script it, but then you'd end
with a bunch of little "one off" scripts.
Now, with a good and visual app you could get line charts, bar graphs,
network graphs, tables of info, and whatever else you want/need all in
one place and massaged in such a way that it actually makes sense.
What if one of your nodes goes down? You might have to manually check
each day, "are you up?". With this app, you'd automatically get
notified via the UI that the node is down or is struggling with
resources.

Now, if you do like command line, or make scripts or whatever, then by
all means do it the way you want. The thing is though, the more apps
there are, the better your choices will be and you get to choose your
own strategy.

I for one don't like the command line. Easy to mistype and get lost.
Not to mention, do the wrong thing, i.e drop database in production.

To summarize, my ideas are a blend of lightweight management system,
lightweight querying system, and hopefully advanced monitoring and
notifications

Henning
   1. Managing system.js
   2. Managing users per collection
   3. Running task like migration etc
   - We don't need to edit schema like in rdbms but if we change something
      in our code, it could be fun to have somewhere that let us run
task in order
      to conform old data to the changes
   4. Import/Export of data
   5. Viewing data
   6. Query builder?
   7. Viewing logs
   8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node
Honestly, i'd make it a webapp because it's far easier to setup for many
people and can be accessed from anywhere with a web browser. So no need to
setup anything except a browser.
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Sam Corder
2010-06-02 14:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Sorry to break into this thread late in the game. Have you seen this
project yet?

http://github.com/PatrickGannon/MongoDB-Management-Studio
<http://github.com/PatrickGannon/MongoDB-Management-Studio>
It is using the mongodb-csharp driver and WPF. I would suggest having a
look at it and seeing how open the author is to contributions before going
off and reinventing the wheel.

You should also read this blog post before starting your project.
http://hackingon.net/post/mongoDB-Management-Studio.aspx It was a weekend
get together where they did a web based management studio using norm. They
weren't too happy with their choice because norm focuses on mapping
documents straight to types that are already known. Mongodb-csharp allows
you to work with any document structure at any time. The next release which
will be in beta this week will also provide the flexibility to work with
strongly typed objects with a highly flexible mapping giving you the best of
both worlds.
Post by Henning
Nick,
A lot of the regular usecases for SQL server management studio goes
away when you use a database like MongoDB, however I do believe there
is still room for such an app.
ЛПОк mentions a lot of the things I've been thinking about, and
especially "8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node" is
something I'd consider to be valuable.
Lets take the case mentioned. You're an ops guy, and want to know the
health of your cluster. Straight out of the box, you'd probably do a
lot of command line stuff to get an "overview", but you'd lose
yourself if your cluster gets big. Not to mention it would be a MANUAL
operation each time. You could probably script it, but then you'd end
with a bunch of little "one off" scripts.
Now, with a good and visual app you could get line charts, bar graphs,
network graphs, tables of info, and whatever else you want/need all in
one place and massaged in such a way that it actually makes sense.
What if one of your nodes goes down? You might have to manually check
each day, "are you up?". With this app, you'd automatically get
notified via the UI that the node is down or is struggling with
resources.
Now, if you do like command line, or make scripts or whatever, then by
all means do it the way you want. The thing is though, the more apps
there are, the better your choices will be and you get to choose your
own strategy.
I for one don't like the command line. Easy to mistype and get lost.
Not to mention, do the wrong thing, i.e drop database in production.
To summarize, my ideas are a blend of lightweight management system,
lightweight querying system, and hopefully advanced monitoring and
notifications
Henning
Post by Лоик
1. Managing system.js
2. Managing users per collection
3. Running task like migration etc
- We don't need to edit schema like in rdbms but if we change
something
Post by Лоик
in our code, it could be fun to have somewhere that let us run
task in order
to conform old data to the changes
4. Import/Export of data
5. Viewing data
6. Query builder?
7. Viewing logs
8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node
Honestly, i'd make it a webapp because it's far easier to setup for many
people and can be accessed from anywhere with a web browser. So no need
to
Post by Лоик
setup anything except a browser.
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Maciej Dziardziel
2010-06-02 15:42:00 UTC
Permalink
   1. Managing system.js
   2. Managing users per collection
   3. Running task like migration etc
   - We don't need to edit schema like in rdbms but if we change something
      in our code, it could be fun to have somewhere that let us run
task in order
      to conform old data to the changes
   4. Import/Export of data
   5. Viewing data
   6. Query builder?
   7. Viewing logs
   8. Managing server cloud and stats about each node
5 and 6 i am considering as done (with room for improvements, but
already usable).
If anyone wants to help me with other functions, i am haapy to accept
your help:
http://github.com/Fiedzia/Fang-of-Mongo
Currently i am working on managing indexes.
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Maciej Dziardziel
2010-06-02 15:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henning
I see potentially two usecases for such a system.
1. Used by operations team to monitor the database/cluster to see that
everything works as it should.
That is a job for monitoring tools like zabbix or nagios, there is no
need for special mongo monitoring tool,
particularly not one with any user interface.
Post by Henning
2. Used by developers to aid in the development of their systems. That
way they can easily check to see that every piece of data is stored,
as well as performance metrics. Here a desktop app would be ideal as
the users wouldn't have to set up a webserver just to check if
everything works as it should.
It is age of the web, "Setting a webserver" currently is way easier
then installing desktop app.
Also in any company you just set it once and averybody is using it,
instead of rolling it
for everybody and fighting with all combinations of operating system/
library versions/32b or 64b system etc.
Post by Henning
The webserver approach would also be easier to port, since you
don't
Post by Henning
have to deal with multiple UI frameworks.
With use of virtual machine, there is no porting at all.
Post by Henning
However, for some of my features, a desktop app would be a better
choice.
Can you list such features?
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Renzo Carbonara
2010-05-31 10:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henning
Right now, I'm really torn between supporting other platforms, and
ease of development/cool features. I might be leaning towards WPF,
which would exclude Mono, although nothing is decided yet.
What about Gtk# [0]? It's a very welcomed combination (Mono, C#, Gtk#)
that many successful projects use [1]. If you are going the
"Multiplatform C#" path (which I hope you do since many of us don't
use Windows), I'd strongly recommend it. In fact, I wouldn't recommend
anything different.
Post by Henning
Another option would be to use Silverlight/Moonlight, but that is a
road I do not want to go down.
Those tools are aimed at other kind of applications. I don't think a
DB Management software would fit there.


Regards,

Renzo Carbonara.

[0] http://www.mono-project.com/GtkSharp
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_%28software%29#Software_developed_with_Mono
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